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Obláček: Fórum / Views of foreign players / Obla CTF rotations - too much voting?
Autor Zpráva
cybershark
Člen

Zasláno: 9.6.09 22:37 | Změnil/a: cybershark


Recently I vented some spleen in the Zdaemon forums which lead to little more than myself and Thadeuss filling up several pages there.

Really this would have been the better place to post but I guess I'm able to state things more clearly as a result of ranting there first :>

Here is that thread. And to quickly sum it all up:

* Seems like everytime I see an interesting ZDCTF map pop up in the Obla rotation and join for a game it gets voted off. The server says it is for 'mp1,2 and 3' but seldom runs anything but maps 1, 4, 8 and a couple of others. Maybe you could set up a server that only runs those more popular maps?

* Public servers which have a good maplist should not require map voting. On a private or a tourney server then sure. On a server with no maplist then yes, fine. But if you already cleared all the shit maps out of the rotation then it really shouldn't be necessary. This can be proven by the US servers which run for hours with no voting. At the very least then could you make it a little less easy to get a vote passed by players?

* I am not against those maps - well, no more than I'm against ZDCTF as a whole - I'd just like to be able to join a populated server at certain times of day and to be able to play more than just 3 or 4 maps :/

Firestone
Administrátor

Zasláno: 21.6.09 23:33


* Seems like everytime ...

So running ZDCTFMP stable server with some "popular" maps isn't so easy. There is a problem that some people like some maps but some doesn't. If you want play ZDCTFMP with your favorite maps feel free to make your custom server via our engine.

* Public servers which ...

You are right. I will remove map voting only at Oblacek's first ZDCTFMP server. But I think that keep enabled this feature at second one ZDCTFMP server on cirrus.sh.cvut.cz will be good choice.

FunebraK
Člen

Zasláno: 22.6.09 15:30


ok, but remove also map 06 pls :)

Gyrossman
Člen

Zasláno: 22.6.09 15:34


but remove also map 06 pls :)
seconded

cybershark
Člen

Zasláno: 23.6.09 00:16


Thirded. Cursed is never much fun XD

Firestone: "If you want play ZDCTFMP with your favorite maps feel free to make your custom server via our engine."

Well now I'd have done that if that was what I wanted. I don't have 'favourite maps' and it just seems odd that I'd have to make a server to play the maps that should be in the rotation on the permanent server.

Also if a game is already going on one server then people would prefer to sit and spectate in there in the hope of getting to play next game rather than join a server with just 2 or 3 people in.


But thankyou very much for removing the voting on one of the servers :D

Firestone
Administrátor

Zasláno: 24.6.09 12:54


to FunebraK & Gyrossman:

What's the problem with map06?

capodecima
Člen

Zasláno: 24.6.09 16:00


What's the problem with map06?

map06 is breaking map (spamming rl and hard scoring here) , nobody want to play a players leaving game , i am too for remove map06.

Firestone
Administrátor

Zasláno: 24.6.09 18:32


... everyone else has a same opinion?

Vody
Člen

Zasláno: 25.6.09 12:38


i am too for remove map06
this map is sux
^_^

Firestone
Administrátor

Zasláno: 29.6.09 09:57


Ok than... I will remove that map.

ufon
Člen

Zasláno: 24.7.09 00:27 | Změnil/a: ufon


I'm playing very rarely nowadays, windows7 suck for zdaemon big time and also other stuff gets in the way. But playing today on my favourite server, i was just stunned with the inability to call vote on maps.

Can you explain to me, once again, why the map voting got disabled ? Why should it be decided beforehand, what players are going to play without them having any say in it ? That just doesn't make sense.

We created the map list out of the finest zdctfmp1+2+3 maps - or our perception of what those are, but that doesn't mean the players have to go through all of them every time - against their will. For example map 18 is far less popular than say map 04, why should it be played as often as map 04, which is far more popular ?(might not be the best example, but you get the idea)

Ultimately, it should be the players playing the games deciding which map gets played, thats the beauty of voting - works great for democracy, it worked great for the ctf servers in my time as well. The majority decides, and if out of 10 players 6 decide they want to go with map04 instead of map18, 2 don't care and only 1-2 of them are against, does the 'compulsory' playing of map18 make any sense ? Just because it's the-next-map-in-some-silly-maplist ? Not to me.
In the end, with the voting enabled, the less popular maps get their turn as well, just not as often as the other more popular ones, and that's how it should be.

Well, i guess one can get cynical and say "what's the purpose of any hand-picked map list with voting enabled anyway". I think the purpose is obvious and i hope i won't have to go through the pains of explaining that here.

Also, i'm rather surprised how quickly this got decided, cybershark was basically the only one asking for this, why wasn't other players' opinion taken into consideration or required ?

What's other players' take on this, has the change been of any benefit to the players or the servers ?

cybershark
Člen

Zasláno: 3.8.09 12:54


"Why should it be decided beforehand, what players are going to play without them having any say in it ? That just doesn't make sense. "
Because players having a say in it meant that it was equally as preordained.

The big problem with voting - certainly without a randomised maplist - is that voting onto map01 inevitably leads to map02, so unless a slightly less popular map follows directly after one of the favourites then it is unlikely to ever get played and the server becomes stuck in a rut.

Note that voting has not been disabled on both Oblacek public servers, just on one of them. So I fail to see how anyone could really have a problem with this.

Firestone
Administrátor

Zasláno: 5.8.09 18:34


to ufon:

So as cybershark said if you want to play with map voting so you can play on the second CTF server on cirrus.sh. There is a whole maplist (from map01 to map30).

Evolution
Člen

Zasláno: 7.8.09 01:38


Hello all and hello ufon.

"what players are going to play without them having any say in it ?"

players played CTF just fine before voting was invented. :) sometimes I do not mind a bit of callvote action, for instance when that rediculous map with plasmas in middle comes on. However sometimes it annoys me when newbies keep callvoting every day they play for a certain map when a good one is one already.

By the way your English is remarkable and I love you, do you love me?

ufon
Člen

Zasláno: 9.8.09 19:52 | Změnil/a: ufon


yea i love you too, cybershark slightly less though :)

a server with the whole maplist is much less likely to get populated thus any voting enabled seems to serve noone

all i'm saying is if anything, we should be arguing about the proper variable values for voting(percentage of votes needed for a vote to pass), not whether we disable/enable it alltogether

anyway, i'll leave it to the admin's discretion, i said what i wanted to say

cybershark
Člen

Zasláno: 10.8.09 19:08


"a server with the whole maplist is much less likely to get populated thus any voting enabled seems to serve noone"

That's precisely when voting is most helpful - for ZDCTF or any other CTF pack.

Yes, as Evo says and I had previously noted, CTF did get along just fine before we had such a facility. Indeed it still prospers on US servers that do not have that function enabled.

And Ufon you're right about the variable aspect. I've been in games with 6 players where a couple vote and within seconds - before I even have had chance to counter it - the map is changed. Ideally then the parameters for switching would be a bit more flexible but clearly it is harder to find a good balance when fine tuning such a thing.

Evolution
Člen

Zasláno: 11.8.09 02:15


Aha Ufon, maybe I misunderstood where you were coming from in that case! I love you guys!


 


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